• Achtung, achtung!  :)

    During July 27th 2024 (or 28th, depending on your time zone), hosting server maintenance is planned and the forum will not work normally (we'll set it to read-only mode at best, though it will be completely offline for a while). Hopefully, it will all go well and we will be back on line within less than 8 hours.

    Thank you in advance for your patience.

    Note, this has nothing to do with the planned forum upgrade to version 2.3, which will most probably happen at a later date (probably in Autumn).

    Relja

Offset frames and lacing patterns

Solution
I guess this is the first English language post in this forum :)

What I am asking myself is: Do offset frames / wheels ("Cannondale AI" is an example of an offset frame requiring offset wheels) make any difference to finding the ideal spoke lacing patterns? By "ideal lacing pattern" I mean what is discussed in this article (number of crossings etc): https://bike.bikegremlin.com/14304/spoke-lacing-comparison-using-software/#2.5

Hi Nic,

Welcome to the forum - it's nice to see you here. :)

Your question is interesting, and these are my thoughts:

1. Spoke angles and offset frames​

Rear cassette wheels on standard frames have DS spokes come at an angle that is not very good for handling lateral loads (while the angle...
I guess this is the first English language post in this forum :)

What I am asking myself is: Do offset frames / wheels ("Cannondale AI" is an example of an offset frame requiring offset wheels) make any difference to finding the ideal spoke lacing patterns? By "ideal lacing pattern" I mean what is discussed in this article (number of crossings etc): https://bike.bikegremlin.com/14304/spoke-lacing-comparison-using-software/#2.5

Hi Nic,

Welcome to the forum - it's nice to see you here. :)

Your question is interesting, and these are my thoughts:

1. Spoke angles and offset frames​

Rear cassette wheels on standard frames have DS spokes come at an angle that is not very good for handling lateral loads (while the angle is more favourable for the NDS spokes, but those gains are minimal past a certain point and it's better to have a balanced wheel, than to have it be stronger at taking lateral loads from one side, but weark for taking them from the other side).

Offset frames allow for a more even spoke angle, making the wheel more balanced (and, on average, stronger) when taking the lateral loads.

The even angle allows for a more uniform tension when comparing DS and NDS spoke tension, which is also beneficial for a stronger, more durable wheel.

2. Spoke lacing patterns​

All else being equal, radial lacing with spoke heads on the inside (and elbows on the outside) of flanges provides the highest lateral stiffness, because of the best (widest) bracing angle. Crossed lacing, on the other hand, provides more stiffnes under torsion (pedalling loads), reduces pedalling energy losses, reduces spoke tension and position fluctuation and fatigue, and reduces stress on the hub flanges.

3. Putting it together​

When the pros and cons of radial vs crossed lacing patterns are compared, the only real benefit of radial lacing is that you can radially lace rear NDS spokes to prevent them from going loose under pedalling torque.

With that in mind, offset frame allows for a more uniform spoke tension, thus negating any need for radial lacing (even for the rear NDS spokes only).

Regarding lateral stiffness (if that's our major concern), radial lacing, compared to crossed lacing, improves lateral stiffness by less than 10%. One would gain a lot more by simply using wider flanges (and using crossed lacing for its other benefits).

At least that's my thinking out loud.

In practice, I build wheels with a maximum amount of crosses that is possible, and that has proven to be a strong and durable lacing pattern (at least in my experience).

Relja CrossMeThrice Novović
:)
 
Solution
Understood!

In summary: there is even less reason the lace radially with an offset frame/wheel.
Exactly.
I should have said so before the length explanation why. :)

P.S.
I've created a "Wheelbuilding" section where I will move this topic since I think that makes sense.

Relja
 

Adverts

Support BikeGremlin

Help BikeGremlin stay online with a Patreon donation:

Back
Top Bottom