To prevent article pages from being miles long, but preserve all the useful questions and answers provided over time, I've decided to copy/paste the website comments to the forum - and "move" further discussions here.
If you can't find the answer to your question in this thread, please open a separate thread with your question/problem, in an appropriate forum section (this is the compatibility-mix/matching section).
Relja 25/06/2016 at 09:05
Wrote it for myself – too many stuff change, wanted it all in one place to remind myself when I need it. Glad you find it useful too.
Steve 01/01/2017 at 17:51
So is the 11speed road cassette 1.8mm wider then a 10speed MTB cassette?
Relja 01/01/2017 at 21:38
Yes. A Shimano 11 speed road cassette is about 1.8 mm wider than a 10 speed cassette.
Just to note that for 10 speed cassettes – there’s no difference between road and MTB ones: same width, pitch and sprocket thickness.
arellanol 04/03/2019 at 04:13
I have formula hub 142×12 with non anti bite guard freehub feature. Now I want to replace it with different manufacturer Freehub Body but same measurement 142×12. Is it compatible?
Relja 04/03/2019 at 06:05
That would depend on the profile of the freehub part that gets onto the hub. These things differ from model to model for all I know.
So do check, compare, but it’s not just the axle and width, but also the number of ratchets and the shape of the part going towards the hub.
Not sure if I’ve explained properly, let me know if You need pictures and more clarification.
Jimmydukes 13/06/2019 at 19:49
What is the widths of the 10, 11 and 12 speed driver bodies for the XD compatible drivers?
Relja 13/06/2019 at 20:50
I don’t know.
Will edit the text though. I think I see where the confusion was.
The body is the same, for any XD cassette used. No different body widths.
John 28/07/2019 at 19:44
Thanks, this is a really helpful article. Sheldon Brown’s compatibility webpage is also helpful, though it is mostly text and a picture can help a lot.
–> question about free hub bodies. There are several shimano hub bodies in the 8-9-10 family available at numerous retailers and I can’t figure out which one to buy. I am trying to mount on an older deore XXT mtn hub to convert it from 6-7 to 8-9-10. The older hub never shows up in the listings online. I tried to use a freehub I had and I would say it puts the largest cog perilously close to the spokes coming out of the flange. I could make a thin shim, but I was wondering if there is any documentation available that characterizes the width of the free hub drivers from the hub seat to where the cogs start? Or an overall width dimension so I can subtract off the cog region?
Thanks
Relja 29/07/2019 at 00:43
For all I know, Shimano freehub body width comes in several dimensions (sorted from narrowest to the widest/longest):
7 speed
10 speed only (sold/made for a relatively short period)
8-9-10 (any) – 11 (MTB only) speed
11 speed road
So old 7 speed freehub will be too narrow to accept 8, 9… speed cassettes. The main concern being the lockring not having enough threads to get properly threaded and engaged.
Though I never tried replacing a 7 speed freehub mechanism with an 8-9-10 one, on a 7 speed hub. It is possible that the flanges are put too close for the 8-9-10… speed cassettes to clear the spokes. But I can’t confirm that.
I can’t figure from the comment what exact model of hub you have, which replacement freehub body you are considering placing on it and which cassette is to be tried on. That info might help.
John 29/07/2019 at 02:09
It’s a deore XT FH-M732 mtn hub, 135mm axle. I am indeed trying to put an 8/9/10 body on this hub. Based on the flanges, which are approximately 60mm apart, I think it should be close. There is a lot of room with a 7 sp cassette. I may need a small shim under the free hub, depending though. Wish I could find drawings with measurements for the free hubs shimano makes today – there appear to be 3-4 different shapes with slightly different offsets from the mounting face.
Relja 29/07/2019 at 10:17
A few notes, just in case:
When adding a wider freehub body, hub’s OLD will change. Solution would be making the left hand side spacing a bit narrower (replacing a wide spacer with a narrower one helps).
Don’t have the measurements of freehub widths – but will measure when I find the time (adding this to to-do list).
Likewise, I also think that freehub attachment profile/standards differ between models, not all will fit all, even “within” the Shimano brand.
As for the spacers, with an 8-9-10 speed freehub, only if using a 10 speed cassette, a spacer must be added (1mm wide, often provided with the cassette). 8 and 9 speed cassettes don’t need any spacers. There’s definitely no room to add them with those cassettes, even if one wants to.
Dave 07/09/2019 at 15:57
Thanks for your comparison and detailed article, this is very helpful!
Christophe 21/12/2020 at 13:45
Hey,
Excellent article ! So useful !!!
Will also be super useful to have a measurement of freehub. I am helping in a bicycle workshop and we have a box of freehubs but always take some time to figure out what models they are.
Just to add that it is not clear that you can use a 11s speed MTB cassette on the 11 speed ROAD freehub with à 1.8 mm spacer.
Thanks for the great work !
Relja 21/12/2020 at 14:44
Hi,
Thank you very much for the feedback. I’ve edited the article to be more clear now.
As for the measurements, I have made a hub dimension spreadsheet, noting the dimensions important for wheelbuilding.
Do you think any other dimensions should be included?
Christophe 23/12/2020 at 21:10
Yes
Size of freehub : (From kstoerz website)
7s freehub – 30.9 mm
8-9-10s (and 11s MTB) freehub – 34.95 mm
10s only freehub – ?
11s freehub ROAD – 36.75 mm
Otherwise I use this website for hub size. And calculate with Roger Musson like you do. https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/
marlin 5 07/04/2021 at 03:29
Useful page! I am stuck with a Trek Marlin 7speed and trying to figure out if I can improve it or if I should just get a new bike. I was short sighted and changed to 1x in front, and now I live somewhere with more hills and wish I had lower gears. I had heard about the “8 of 9” or “9 of 10” method where you could supposedly fit other cassettes on this 7 speed hub. Your page here helped me understand it even a little better (I think). This is the first place that I heard the key information that you can’t just remove the smallest gear – I had assumed that would be the easiest way to do it! This leaves me wondering, how many other choices do you have though for other gears to leave off? How often does a cassette come with more than the smallest gear not completely attached to the cassette? Or in the case of wanting to remove the largest gear (aside from 11 speed where you should not), how would you ever take off the large gear? Aren’t these usually riveted together? Of course I am speaking of lower-end budget components; I have seen that a higher end cassette can come apart in many more pieces. Basically if I wanted to find an 8, 9, or 10 speed casette to use, but the rule is that you can’t just leave off the smallest gear, do I need to make sure it has the second smallest gear as a separate piece? I wouldn’t want to remove the larger gears anyway since that is where I am looking for extra range.
My choices are to fit something on the 7 speed hub, buy a new rear wheel that has a hub for 8/9/10, or just start thinking about my next bike. (I’ve read conflicting information about just trying to get a longer hub body on the original wheel, seems like you shouldn’t really do that as the wheel dish isn’t correct etc). I’d like to keep the 1x up front so I’m not considering going back to a front derailleur.
Relja 07/04/2021 at 08:15
Hi,
There are several solutions to this gearing problem. I’ll number them for easier reference in case of any follow-up questions:
1) Custom cassette.
Some cassettes have the largest sprocket go all the way to the freehub. While others have the largest 3, or more sprockets stuck together on a spider.
For the former ones, you can drill out the pins, rivets, or unscrew the bolts – whatever is holding the sprockets together – and use the sprockets “separately,” as you please (just don’t forget to put a spacer between every two sprockets ).
My road bicycle has 53-42 cranks, so I just took an un-worn 34-tooth sprocket from an 8-speed cassette and put it first on the freehub, to allow me climbing long, steep climbs. It took place of a 25 tooth sprocket. The next, 23-toothed sprocket got replaced by a 28-toothed one, to make the gap a bit smaller and allow shifting. Most of the cassette is “edited” to make it “slower / easier,” but without such huge gaps on the “faster end” of the cassette. For the smallest sprocket, I went with a 12-toothed one (that’s the largest readily available) and used a matching locknut for a 12-T sprocket.
Here’s a video, in my native (Serbo-Croatian) – you can play some music and just watch what I’m doing (I’ll make a video in English once I find the time): disassembling a cassette – Serbo-Croatian version
– You can use Google translate for the video description, because it contains a Table Of Contents, so you can skip to the parts of interest, not have to sit through the whole video.
Lower end cassettes, especially the 8 and fewer gear ones, often have sprockets going all the way to the freehub.
2) Triple, or double cranks
This is a good solution as well. You would need to find a front derailleur and a shifter. In my city, 2nd hand ones can be sourced relatively cheaply. I strongly prefer friction shifters, but I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
If a frame fits you, you can mount practically whatever you want on it and make it an effectively new bicycle, matching your requirements.
Relja
Chris 15/04/2021 at 00:19
Hello ….. I bought Pro Lite bracciano A42W wheels where the freehub Campagnolo is installed, and I have Shimano all the gear in the bike, now the question is whether I can change the freehub from Campagnolo to Shimano or do I have to replace the entire hub, Thank you and best regards.
Chris
Relja 15/04/2021 at 06:54
Hi Chris,
Some hubs have interchangeable freehubs (DT Swiss models come to mind).
For some, a Shimano freehub will fit, thread on – for having the same interface.
Howerver, I’d say that for most hubs – the answer is no.
I would recommend posting the question (with your hub model) on bikeforums.net. If someone’s done that, they might share how and what freehub they used.
Relja
Sean McAleavy 10/05/2021 at 23:25
Your site might very well be the most informative site on the internet. It is certainly the best and most well-written information on bike maintenance that I have ever encountered and I really appreciate it. I just want to say thank you. Your information really helped me and my gratitude is much more than I can express in words.
Ian Macaskill 18/06/2021 at 18:52
Thanks for explaining Campagnolo Exa-Drive , old and current. I do have a question, now that I know the type of freewheel hub I have on a set of wheels I purchased. Will an 8 speed Miche Primato 8 speed cassette fit onto the exa-drive splines? Thanks
Relja 18/06/2021 at 21:44
Hi Ian,
For all I know, Miche makes both Shimano, and Campagnolo compatible cassettes.
“Primato 8 SH” is Shimano compatible, while “Primato 8 M” is Campagnolo compatible.
However, I haven’t had any first hand experience with Miche Campagnolo-compatible cassettes.
Exa-drive is the current Campagnolo’s 8-speed standard and I think that’s what the current Campagnolo-compatible 8-speed cassettes fit.
Relja
Ian Kenneth Macaskill 18/06/2021 at 22:17
Thank you Relja. I decided to go for a Campagnolo 8 speed knowing it will fit. Had hoped to get a 13-26 but they are fairly difficult to find and are more pricy, but I have a 13-21 that I purchased. Will have to keep away from the hills when I ride the bike with this drivetrain!
Relja 19/06/2021 at 09:18
I’m sticking with the old-school 53-42 cranks, but at the back, I’ve switched to a 13-34 cassette years ago.
Gravity seems to have increased a bit over the past decade…
Still got the down-tube friction shifters, so I can make custom cassettes from the spare parts (not all the sprockets get worn on every cassette I replace), mixing 7 and 8 speed sprockets.
A bit of a Frankenstein, but it works.
Ian Macaskill 23/06/2021 at 18:54
Good day Relja. The mysteries of Campagnolo Exa-drive cassettes keep coming up. I received the cassette that I ordered, but the lock ring threaded section, does not fit the threaded section on the hub of my wheel. The lock ring I received measures 25 mm diameter and it appears I need a lock ring more like 28.5 mm diameter. So my question, Are there two different diameters for the Exa-drive lock ring? The seller may have sent a Lock Ring for Ultra-Drive. What can you tell me in this regard?
Relja 23/06/2021 at 20:22
Hi Ian,
It sounds like you got an old 9-speed standard lockring – for the 9-speed Exa-Drive.
The newer 9-speed cassettes are Ultra-Drive.
8-speed ExaDrive is over 28 mm, as you’ve measured (not sure about the exact locking thread diameter, but I’d bet on 29 mm for the lockring threads outer diameter).
I did some googling since I have no Campy cassettes nor freehubs at hand.
See this Campagnolo tech. document on page 61 (in a PDF reader, it’s page 55 as shown on the page).
It says that old 9speed lockrings have a 26 mm thread diameter, while the newer 9-speed standard is 27 mm.
And it says 29 mm for 8-speed.
Relja
Noe 23/06/2021 at 19:10
Thanks for the article, it is very informative.
I am inexperienced but thought I’d give a try to fix an old gardin my gf owns.
It has campagnolo hubs on araya/ambrosio elite rims.
Shimano 600 levers and components:
7-speed freewheel cassette (11-23) and biopace 52/42 crankset. Friction/SIS downtube shifters.
I don’t intend to change the shifters for now, but I was wondering if we could try to give a few more range to the gears for the climbs in Vancouver’s coast. If at all possible, what would be the simplest approach? Is there an 11-34 (or even 11-42) cassette I could fit in these hubs, or would it need new wheels/hubs on top of a new cassette?
Perhaps a lower grear crankset is another way to go, but she loves the biopace!
Thanks in advance!
Relja 23/06/2021 at 20:35
Hi Noe,
My road bike has 53/42 BioPace cranks, and I have a spare, like-new, set stashed in my garage.
It’s nice, but the gravity seems to have become stronger over the past decade… for me at least – the younger lads don’t seem to be affected!?!
The way I’ve solved this was by sticking with the friction shifters and making a custom cassette using a freehub wheel, making it go:
14-15-17-21-23-28-34
The last two huge jumps in tooth count are just right for the steep climbs when I want one shift to make things a lot easier.
For a 42 T largest sprocket, at least on my bike, I’d most probably have to swap the rear derailleur for an MTB one or use a derailleur hanger extender (WolfTooth is known for making those).
I’ve seen 12-34 7-speed cassettes. I’ve also seen 12-34 freewheels. Not sure about 11-42, at least with (only) 7 speeds.
Relja
Noe 23/06/2021 at 21:48
Thanks for taking the time with all the details, Relja.
I hear you about gravity! I am going to try and make it work with the current 7-speed cassette for now. If all goes well then perhaps I can try to switch the hub and make a custom cassette.
Jens Kieler 16/11/2021 at 00:09
Great article and discussion.
Will a SRAM 12 spd AXS road cassette fit on a Shimano 11 spd road freehub?
Or is there a freehub replacement that will accept the SRAM 12 spd cassette for this wheel?
Relja 16/11/2021 at 11:44
Hi Jens,
The safest bet is to check manufacturer specifications for the particular model.
As far as I know, 12-speed AXS road cassettes require an XDR freehub, so they aren’t compatible with Shimano freehubs (see the freehub compatibility article for more details).
Depending on the rear hub model, some manufacturers offer replacement freehub mechanisms for different standards. But that also needs to be checked with the rear hub manufacturer – whether replacements are available.
Generally speaking, manufacturers are paying a lot for marketing, to convince us we need to get the latest & greatest stuff (11+ speeds at the back, 1 chainring at the front, disc brakes etc.).
And, they are working hard to make it very, very difficult to mix-match stuff from other manufacturers. Some companies produce various products to help sort out the incompatibilities, but they aren’t mass-produced and often cost a lot – like Jtek ShiftMate gear shift adapters (link to their website), DT Swiss XDR freehub conversion kits (Amazon affiliate link) etc.
Relja
Relja 06/12/2021 at 11:40
If the website info is correct, the factory rear wheel is Fulcrum Racing 77 DB.
That’s 142×12 mm thru axle, so that Shimano hub should fit.
Just keep the original axle for mounting the wheel, that’s generally frame-specific (intend to write an article on that).
Of course, if you have the bike – measure to confirm (the dropout spacing and the axle diameter).
Sid 26/12/2021 at 15:05
Hi. Nice info!
Do you know the spacing and width of the new Shimano Linkglide 10 and 11 speed?
Ricardo 19/12/2022 at 18:19
As I understand, if I upgrade SRAM XT hiperglide freehub mounted on fulcrums wheels I just need to buy sram XD freehub and fit it… Why I found SRAM XD freehub with details about hubs brands? It’s confusing me…or I need to search XD freehub compatible with fulcrums wheels particularly?
Relja Novović 20/12/2022 at 09:23
Hi Ricardo,
Short answer:
Yes, you need to find a Fulcrum compatible freehub with a SRAM XD cassette mounting system (if you wish to run SRAM XD cassettes).
Explanation:
Freehub to hub mounting system and cassette to freehub mounting system are two separate compatibility concerns.
Generally, not every freehub can be mounted on every hub. I.e. freehub to hub mount needs to be a matching one. It usually depends on the manufacturer (i.e. DT Swiss hubs require DT Swiss compatible freehubs). Sometimes it even depends on the particular model (i.e. not every Shimano freehub will fit every Shimano hub).
Cassette mounting system on the freehub (Shimano Hyperglide, Hyperglide+, SRAM XD etc.) is a separate compatibility concern. That needs to match the cassette you intend to use.
James 20/05/2023 at 21:39
I’m getting on a bit my hybrid bike has 2×9 gearing and the wheels are the same size as a road bike. My question is, could I put a modern 12 speed wheel on my bike and just buy a derailleur a 12’speed cassette and lever and go from 18 gears to 24 gears
BikeGremlin 21/05/2023 at 00:15
Hi James,
To switch to a 2×12 drivetrain, you would need the following:
1.
A rear hub that can take a 12-speed cassette (depending on which one you opt for), and that also fits your frame.
If I had to guess, I’d suppose your frame has 135 mm rear dropout spacing (or 132.5 mm), in which case you’d need a hub that has a 135 mm OLD (Over Locknut Distance). If needed, see chapter 5 (and 5.1) in my article about bicycle rear hubs for more details.
2.
A cassette matching your hub (there are different mounting systems, such as SRAM XD, and Shimano Microspline).
If you opt for a Shimano Hyperglide 12-speed cassette (not a Hyperglide+), it should fit right onto your existing 9-speed freehub. Larger sprockets are designed to “overhang” the right hub flange, as their diameter is pretty large (36 teeth on the largest and similar), so that’s how they found the room to fit.
3.
A matching 12-speed chain (if you opt for some of the more “exotic” cassettes such as Shimano Hyperglide+).
4.
Matching 2×12 shifters and derailleurs.
5.
If you go with Shimano Hyperglide+ or SRAM AXS (road stuff, with their “flattop” chains) it will be a good idea to also buy the matching cranks, as chains and chainring teeth are designed to work well with each other, and don’t play as well with the “normal” stuff.
What you would get in the end is most probably only 2 or 3 more gear choices between your highest and lowest gear. I.e, gear ratios a bit more tightly packed (a video where I touched upon why front and rear shifters don’t give a simple multiple of their count in different gear ratios). And a split-second faster shifting. None of that really matters for anything except competitive cycling in my opinion and experience – it just costs (a lot) more. In other words: if your current drivetrain is lacking something, depending on what it is, there may be simpler ways to fix that. I think it’s fair to note and disclose that info – so that you know what is reasonable to expect and make an informed decision (i.e. it’s perfectly fine to go with the new, expensive stuff if you wish, it’s your bike and your choice).
Relja
If you can't find the answer to your question in this thread, please open a separate thread with your question/problem, in an appropriate forum section (this is the compatibility-mix/matching section).
Glad you find it useful too. 
