Wheelbuilding and general upgrade advice. Novatec D041SB & D042SB on Ryde or DT Swiss rims.

[Milan C.]

Hello Relja,

First of all, thank you for everything you do. Your videos have helped me a lot as someone who's just getting into wheel building and bike maintenance.

I have a question about choosing spoke lengths. I'm rebuilding the rear wheel (and maybe the front too) with Novatec D041SB/D042SB hubs (not my first choice, believe me). The biggest problem is that I have to order the rims and spokes at the same time, but I can't measure the actual ERD before the rim arrives.

Unfortunately, there are no decent rims available here in Montenegro, not even the Krypton rim you often recommend. Ordering from Serbia isn't really practical, so my only realistic option is Bike24, where I'm looking at Ryde or DT Swiss rims. Looking for 700c (28" 622mm) Ryde Sputnik R, Ryde Andra, DT Swiss 535 (can't order even over bike24, they don't ship to Montenegr,) or the amazing DT Swiss TK540 (discountinued, can't get them anywhere).

My concern is ordering the wrong spoke lengths and then having to pay shipping twice just to get another set of spokes. (shipping is at least 30 euros + 21% tax on top of that) Do you happen to have measured ERD values for any of these rims, or is there another rim you'd recommend that's durable and reasonably easy to build for a beginner?

I'm building the bike mainly for commuting, general use and maybe some light touring later on. Reliability and ease of maintenance is much more important to me than weight. I'll send you the full specs of my old Wheeler 5000 trekking bike frame as well, in case you have any other upgrade suggestions or important notes to make regarding my build.

Thanks again for all the knowledge you've shared, and for taking the time to read this.

Any advice on which parts to choose, possible alternatives, or reliable websites to order them from would be greatly appreciated! I have contacted many local mechanics from my country, and none are willing to undertake this project or help me in any way, so I'm now forced to bother you, Relja! I am commited now, and I'm even willing to visit your shop in Novi Sad if needed, and get everything tuned properly. I know you don't service bikes on request anymore, but I'm sure Miloš would be able to help me out!

PS: I've ordered new pedals, bike seat post with suspensions, bike seat, bike stem with suspension, bike grips and few other knick knacks from Temu/Ali Express. They seemed to be of decent quality, I'm waiting for them to arrive. Might make an updated thread with all of these "upgrades" installed!

Current bike specs​

• Old Wheeler Cross Line 5000 trekking/MTB frame (around a 58 cm top tube).
• 700C wheels. The rear wheel has an old rim, but I don't know the exact make or model. The front rim is a classic Mavic T217. (The spokes and nipples on both wheels are of unknown make and model.)
• Front hub: Shimano HB-M737 quick-release. It's probably a better hub than the Novatec one I ordered, but the Novatec set wasn't expensive, so I bought both the front and rear hubs together.
• Rear hub: an old Sovos freewheel hub.
• 7-speed freewheel, most likely Shimano. It's quite old. Pretty much everything on the bike is.
• Old chain.
• Triple crankset (3x). The middle chainring is worn out and needs replacing.
• Vintage Shimano Deore XT brakes, shifters, and crankset. The crankset is a Shimano Deore XT FC-M737 from the 1990s.
• Handlebars: Bulls flat bars. I'm interested in converting the bike to drop bars eventually, but that would mean replacing my old Shimano brake levers, so I'm still undecided.
• Tyres: Schwalbe Marathon Green, 37-622.

Planned upgrades​

1. Replace the old rear freewheel hub with a new cassette hub (and possibly replace the front hub as well, building a completely new wheelset).
2. Build a new wheel. I'm open to recommendations for rims. I was considering:
   
   • DT Swiss TK 540
   • DT Swiss 535
   • Ryde Sputnik
   • Ryde Andra
   • Planned spokes and wheel components:
   • DT Swiss Competition (2.0/1.8/2.0 mm)
   • Sapim Polyax brass nipples, 2.0 mm, 12 mm
   • Schwalbe High Pressure TPU rim tape (20-622)
     
3. Convert to an 8-speed cassette, possibly a Shimano CS-HG200 11-34T.
4. Replace the chain, possibly with a Shimano CN-HG71.
5. Replace the worn middle chainring.
6. Possibly convert the bike from flat bars to drop bars in the future.

 

[BikeGremlin]

Hi Milan and welcome,

Hello Relja,

First of all, thank you for everything you do. Your videos have helped me a lot as someone who's just getting into wheel building and bike maintenance.

I have a question about choosing spoke lengths. I'm rebuilding the rear wheel (and maybe the front too) with Novatec D041SB/D042SB hubs (not my first choice, believe me). The biggest problem is that I have to order the rims and spokes at the same time, but I can't measure the actual ERD before the rim arrives.

Unfortunately, there are no decent rims available here in Montenegro, not even the Krypton rim you often recommend. Ordering from Serbia isn't really practical, so my only realistic option is Bike24, where I'm looking at Ryde or DT Swiss rims. Looking for 700c (28" 622mm) Ryde Sputnik R, Ryde Andra, DT Swiss 535 (can't order even over bike24, they don't ship to Montenegr,) or the amazing DT Swiss TK540 (discountinued, can't get them anywhere).

My concern is ordering the wrong spoke lengths and then having to pay shipping twice just to get another set of spokes. (shipping is at least 30 euros + 21% tax on top of that) Do you happen to have measured ERD values for any of these rims, or is there another rim you'd recommend that's durable and reasonably easy to build for a beginner?

It is sad to see the durable stuff being removed from production and sales. Krypton rims are cheap, strong and locally available in Serbia (not sure about Montenegro), but their brake tracks are not as durable as good quality rim brake DT Swiss rims, so that's a downside (though they are cheap to replace when they eventually wear). This can be a nuisance if you have many hills that you need to break on when descending, and if you go down hills in the rain - for braking on flat ground or down hills in the sun, even the Krypton rims should last for a long time.

I do have dimensions for the Krypton rims, if that is an option. They are still made with 36 and 32 hole versions, with rim brake support.

If that fails, you could rely on the manufacturer's ERD data, but that is risky.

These are the ERD measurements that I remembered to save and publish (should have started noting those earlier, my bad):

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/9503/erd-data/

I'm building the bike mainly for commuting, general use and maybe some light touring later on. Reliability and ease of maintenance is much more important to me than weight. I'll send you the full specs of my old Wheeler 5000 trekking bike frame as well, in case you have any other upgrade suggestions or important notes to make regarding my build.

Thanks again for all the knowledge you've shared, and for taking the time to read this.

Any advice on which parts to choose, possible alternatives, or reliable websites to order them from would be greatly appreciated! I have contacted many local mechanics from my country, and none are willing to undertake this project or help me in any way, so I'm now forced to bother you, Relja! I am commited now, and I'm even willing to visit your shop in Novi Sad if needed, and get everything tuned properly. I know you don't service bikes on request anymore, but I'm sure Miloš would be able to help me out!

Sure, we try to help how we can. I'd suggest avoiding the summer period because it gets hectic (and we try to ride on weekends).

PS: I've ordered new pedals, bike seat post with suspensions, bike seat, bike stem with suspension, bike grips and few other knick knacks from Temu/Ali Express. They seemed to be of decent quality, I'm waiting for them to arrive. Might make an updated thread with all of these "upgrades" installed!

That's a good idea.

Current bike specs​

• Old Wheeler Cross Line 5000 trekking/MTB frame (around a 58 cm top tube).
• 700C wheels. The rear wheel has an old rim, but I don't know the exact make or model. The front rim is a classic Mavic T217. (The spokes and nipples on both wheels are of unknown make and model.)
• Front hub: Shimano HB-M737 quick-release. It's probably a better hub than the Novatec one I ordered, but the Novatec set wasn't expensive, so I bought both the front and rear hubs together.
• Rear hub: an old Sovos freewheel hub.
• 7-speed freewheel, most likely Shimano. It's quite old. Pretty much everything on the bike is.
• Old chain.
• Triple crankset (3x). The middle chainring is worn out and needs replacing.
• Vintage Shimano Deore XT brakes, shifters, and crankset. The crankset is a Shimano Deore XT FC-M737 from the 1990s.
• Handlebars: Bulls flat bars. I'm interested in converting the bike to drop bars eventually, but that would mean replacing my old Shimano brake levers, so I'm still undecided.

Drop bars introduce more complications to get the right brake levers and adjust all. Flat bars are generally OK for commuting, even more practical if you're hauling some stuff in one hand. V-brake compatible drop bar brake levers are nearly impossible to find nowadays.

• Tyres: Schwalbe Marathon Green, 37-622.

Planned upgrades​

1. Replace the old rear freewheel hub with a new cassette hub (and possibly replace the front hub as well, building a completely new wheelset).
2. Build a new wheel. I'm open to recommendations for rims. I was considering:
   • DT Swiss TK 540
   • DT Swiss 535
   • Ryde Sputnik
   • Ryde Andra

DT Swiss 535 rims are currently not available with 36 holes in shops I can find in Germany, but I can't find any info about whether that model is discontinued too. I may order those when they are available again and publish ERD info.

1. • Planned spokes and wheel components:
   • DT Swiss Competition (2.0/1.8/2.0 mm)

Sapim Race are also a very good option - whichever you find cheaper.

1. • Sapim Polyax brass nipples, 2.0 mm, 12 mm

DT Swiss classic brass nipples are good. Curved Polyax is a poor design (by marketing, not engineering). They work, but I would rather go with the classic flat nipple head than have the convex curve reducing the rim-to-nipple contact area - that's nonsense from an engineering aspect.

1. • Schwalbe High Pressure TPU rim tape (20-622)

Very good rim tape. 22 mm can also be a good option, depending on the rim width.

1. Convert to an 8-speed cassette, possibly a Shimano CS-HG200 11-34T.

7 speed cassettes can fit 8-speed freehubs if you add one sprocket and one spacer from an old 8-speed cassette (local bike shops should have those). What that looks like:

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1259/bicycle-rear-hub-compatibility/#8

This should save you from having to buy a new rear shifter unless you have friction shifters.

1. Replace the chain, possibly with a Shimano CN-HG71.
2. Replace the worn middle chainring.
3. Possibly convert the bike from flat bars to drop bars in the future.

You could source down tube friction shifters that are mounted via a clamp - your down-tube is the normal sized like they made on steel frames, not some thick or exotic shaped one. That has some pros, especially if you are converting to drop bars and want to keep using v-brakes (instead of mounting and bothering to adjust cantilever brakes). Pros and cons, again.